Legislature(2023 - 2024)GRUENBERG 120

05/02/2023 03:00 PM House STATE AFFAIRS

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03:07:57 PM Start
03:08:28 PM HB4
04:58:43 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 4 ELECTIONS:REPEAL RANK CHOICE/OPEN PRIMARY TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
          HB  4-ELECTIONS: REPEAL RANKED CHOICE VOTING                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:08:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHAW  announced that  the only order  of business  would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 4, "An Act relating to elections."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:09:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SARAH VANCE,  Alaska State Legislature, introduced                                                               
HB  4,  as  the  prime  sponsor.   She  paraphrased  the  sponsor                                                               
statement  [included  in the  committee  packet],  which read  as                                                               
follows [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     House  Bill  4  repeals  rank choice  voting  and  open                                                                    
     primaries, returning  the election  process to  the way                                                                    
     Alaskans  voted  prior  to Ballot  Measure  2  of  2020                                                                    
     except  for  areas in  statute  the  courts have  found                                                                    
     unconstitutional.  This  bill  attempts to  remedy  the                                                                    
     constitutional  issues by  providing for  combined open                                                                    
     primaries  and  omitting  the  requirement  that  party                                                                    
     nominees be registered as a member of that party.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The ballot  measure that transformed  Alaska's election                                                                    
     system in 2020  passed by a narrow margin  of less than                                                                    
     1  percent. The  campaign led  Alaskans to  believe the                                                                    
     ballot  measure would  do away  with "dark  money" only                                                                    
     and that it  would give them "more  options" in voting.                                                                    
     Most Alaskan's  did not  know that  it would  upend our                                                                    
     way of  voting that has  always been one  person equals                                                                    
     one vote.  Many voters  have expressed  buyer's remorse                                                                    
     since passage. In fact, recent  polling shows that that                                                                    
     majority  of Alaskans  strongly  agree  to repeal  rank                                                                    
     choice voting.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     This  bill  allows  combined open  primaries  when  two                                                                    
     parties   request   jointly,   and   implements   court                                                                    
     decisions  in  State  v. Democratic  Party,  from  2018                                                                    
     holding that requirement  that candidates register with                                                                    
     a   party  when   seeking  party   nomination  violates                                                                    
     parties' free speech associational  rights and State v.                                                                    
     Green Party of Alaska  in 2005 holding that prohibition                                                                    
     on parties  combining primary ballots under  the system                                                                    
     established in  AS 15.25.010, 15.25.014,  and 15.25.060                                                                    
     is unconstitutional.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     House Bill  4 seeks to  implement the will  of Alaskans                                                                    
     by returning us to  the historical and trusted election                                                                    
     process where one person equals one vote.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE  reported that one in  eight rural Alaskans'                                                               
ballots  were rejected  in the  special congressional  primary of                                                               
2022 with  up to 17  percent of ballots  being rejected due  to a                                                               
lack of signature  or identifier.  She opined  that ranked choice                                                               
voting   (RCV)   added   more    complication   to   an   already                                                               
disenfranchised voting  population.   She said studies  had shown                                                               
that jurisdictions  with higher proportions of  older voters were                                                               
more  likely to  report ballot  marking mistakes,  increasing the                                                               
potential  for a  rejected  ballot.   Furthermore,  Fair Vote,  a                                                               
proponent  of RCV,  found that  the prevalence  of ranking  three                                                               
candidates was  lowest among  African Americans,  Latinos, voters                                                               
with  less education,  and  those whose  first  language was  not                                                               
English,  she  added.   She  purported  that  RCV had  failed  to                                                               
increase  voter turnout  or  provide more  options  to voters  as                                                               
promised.      Instead,   it  increased   voter   confusion   and                                                               
disenfranchisement  that  caused  the  lowest  voter  turnout  in                                                               
decades, she  said.  She urged  the legislature to return  to the                                                               
trusted process of  "one person equals one vote."   She concluded                                                               
by sharing  a quote from  the report, titled "A  False Majority,"                                                               
by the  Maine Heritage Policy  Center [included in  the committee                                                               
packet].                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHAW sought questions from committee members.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:17:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG questioned the  differences between HB 4                                                               
and HB 1.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE said there was  one small difference on page                                                               
33 of the bill.  She deferred to her staff, Mr. Almeida.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:17:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAKE  ALMEIDA, Staff,  Representative Sarah  Vance, on  behalf of                                                               
Representative  Vance,  prime sponsor  of  HB  4, referenced  the                                                               
repealer section of  the bill, Section 62.  He  indicated that AS                                                               
15.13.070(g) was being  enacted in HB 4, whereas  the statute was                                                               
excluded from HB 1.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG  asked whether  HB 1 was  being "pulled"                                                               
by the  bill sponsor.   She pointed out that  HB 1 had  also been                                                               
heard  in  committee,  which  shared many  of  the  same  talking                                                               
points, and  asked why  two identical bills  were being  heard by                                                               
the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VANCE stated  that both  of the  bills were  pre-                                                               
filed,  adding  that  she  and  Representative  Rauscher,  [prime                                                               
sponsor of  HB 1], decided  to "see which  one rose to  the top."                                                               
She explained that  the specific repealer that was  included HB 4                                                               
and  excluded  from HB  1  concerned  campaign contributions  for                                                               
joint governor and lieutenant governor races.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ARMSTRONG questioned  why  the  chair decided  to                                                               
hear HB 4, as opposed to amending HB 1.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:19:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHAW opened invited testimony.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:20:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JULI LUCKY,  Executive Director,  Alaskans for  Better Elections,                                                               
gave invited testimony in opposition to  HB 4.  She said the core                                                               
principles  of  reform were  empowering  voters  to choose  their                                                               
representatives,  remove  barriers  for  candidates  to  run  for                                                               
office,  and requiring  candidates  to have  majority support  to                                                               
win.    She  conveyed  that in  addition  to  representing  their                                                               
values,  voters  desired  legislators  who  would  work  together                                                               
regardless of party  affiliation to solve the  problems that face                                                               
Alaska.    Voters  wanted  competition for  their  vote  and  the                                                               
freedom  to support  their favorite  candidate without  splitting                                                               
the  vote and  contributing  to their  least favorite  candidate.                                                               
Further, voters  wanted to empower  legislators to work  on their                                                               
behalf and  make tough  decisions in the  best interest  of their                                                               
communities, she reported.  She  said the current election system                                                               
prioritizes   those  values:   voter  choice,   competition,  and                                                               
accountability.    She  conveyed  that  the  nonpartisan  primary                                                               
reduces barriers  to entry  and allows  a more  diverse candidate                                                               
pool to run,  adding that it put all candidates  and voters on an                                                               
even playing field.  She  reported that competition was increased                                                               
by  having  the  top  four  vote  getters,  regardless  of  party                                                               
affiliation, advance  to the  general election.   She  noted that                                                               
while competition was good for  democracy, having more candidates                                                               
to choose  from could lead  to a  spoiler effect.   She purported                                                               
that  the  three  come-from-behind  races  in  Alaska's  November                                                               
election  demonstrated  how  the  RCV  system  allowed  for  more                                                               
competition while  removing the spoiler  effect.  She  added that                                                               
requiring candidates  to earn broad  support directly  from their                                                               
constituents  increases  accountability and  rewards  legislators                                                               
who put their  constituents first.  She stated  that Alaskans for                                                               
Better  Elections   supported  reinstating   reasonable  campaign                                                               
contribution limits and opposed the  repeal of AS 15.13.070(g) in                                                               
Section  62 of  the  bill.   For those  reasons,  she stated  her                                                               
opposition to the proposed legislation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:23:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NICK  MURRAY, Director  of Policy,  Maine Policy  Institute, gave                                                               
invited testimony  in support of  HB 4.   He reported  that Maine                                                               
Policy Institute had studied RCV since  it was passed in 2016 and                                                               
advised  policy  groups  across  the  nation.    He  opined  that                                                               
repealing  RCV would  save Alaskans  an  "immense headache"  over                                                               
time.  He stated that  election data and academic analysis showed                                                               
that more voters were disenfranchised  under RCV in comparison to                                                               
simple  plurality  voting.   He  stated  that opposition  to  RCV                                                               
across  the   nation  and  across  the   political  spectrum  was                                                               
primarily  due to  exhausted or  discarded ballots.   He  cited a                                                               
report submitted  by Nolan McCarty,  a professor of  politics and                                                               
public affairs at Princeton University,  which included data from                                                               
98  RCV races.    He reported  that 11  percent  of ballots  were                                                               
discarded  on average  in RCV  elections,  which decreased  voter                                                               
confidence  in the  election system.    The report  found that  a                                                               
higher rate  of exhausted ballots correlated  to electorates with                                                               
more senior citizen populations  and non-college educated voters;                                                               
additionally,  60 percent  of  the  RCV races  had  less than  50                                                               
percent of  the votes cast  for that  office.  He  cited academic                                                               
research out of  San Francisco that found  minority, elderly, and                                                               
less educated  voters to  be disenfranchised  by the  RCV system;                                                               
further, that it increased disparities  in turnout.  The research                                                               
suggested that  the higher complexity  of RCV  presented barriers                                                               
to   participants  that   decreased   turnout   and  raised   the                                                               
probability of errors.   In closing, he stated  that RCV resulted                                                               
in more exhausted ballots and,  therefore, less participation due                                                               
to the complexity of the system.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHAW opened public testimony on HB 4.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:30:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRISTY   KISSINGER-TOTTEN,   Representing  Self,   testified   in                                                               
opposition to  HB 4 and  expressed her  support for RCV  and open                                                               
primaries.   She said  RCV gave  voice to  the people  and helped                                                               
them  elect  leaders with  the  strongest  support; further,  RCV                                                               
allowed multiple  candidates from one  party to run.   She stated                                                               
that  RCV helped  restrict undue  influence  from powerful  party                                                               
politics and put candidates on  an equal platform, while removing                                                               
the fear  of a third  candidate splitting  the vote.   She opined                                                               
that  HB 4  was an  attempt to  subvert the  will of  the people,                                                               
emphasizing that RCV must remain.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:32:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CRYSTAL JOHNSTON,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to                                                               
HB 4.   She likened RCV to buying candy  from a store, indicating                                                               
that more options,  like candidates, was better.   She reiterated                                                               
her support for RCV.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:33:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CLAUDIA CRISS,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.   She opined  that the 2022  [midterm] election  outcome would                                                               
have been  different had  RCV not  been instated.   She  said she                                                               
opposed closed primaries,  as it allowed committees  of people to                                                               
select candidates based on political affiliation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:34:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES CRISS, Representing Self, testified  in opposition to HB 4,                                                               
expressing  support for  RCV.   He reported  that Alaska  had the                                                               
highest percentage of unaffiliated  and nonpartisan voters of any                                                               
state  with  57.7 percent  of  registered  voters identifying  as                                                               
such.   He  stated that  that RCV  gave the  majority of  Alaskan                                                               
voters a choice  in who represents them.  He  opined that RCV was                                                               
straight forward,  easy to understand,  and offered  a meaningful                                                               
way to participate in government.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:36:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE WOODS,  Representing Self,  testified in opposition  to HB
4.   He opined that  RCV represented  the will of  people, adding                                                               
that  its  use  would  become  more  accepted  as  it  grew  more                                                               
familiar.  He  suggested that the repeal effort  was motivated by                                                               
candidates who  would blame the  voting system rather  than their                                                               
own lack  of appeal.  He  shared his belief that  it was laudable                                                               
that  Alaska  was   leading  the  way  in   this  "experiment  in                                                               
Democracy."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:37:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAN  CAROLYN  HARDY,  State  President,  American  Federation  of                                                               
State, County,  and Municipal Employees, testified  in opposition                                                               
to HB 4.  She read the following prepared remarks:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     In  2020 Citizens  of the  State of  Alaska voted  on a                                                                    
     Citizens' Initiative  to change our system  of election                                                                    
     from party-based  ballots to Rank Choice  Voting (RCV.)                                                                    
     The  Alaska Legislature  is convened  to represent  the                                                                    
     Will of the People and  to enact legislation to benefit                                                                    
     all Alaskans.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     HB 4  seeks to recant the  Will of the People  in favor                                                                    
     of the discontents  in and out of power. HB  4 has been                                                                    
     introduced to  appease the discontents who  did not win                                                                    
     the most  recent State and Federal  elections and those                                                                    
     who are fearful  that RCV will lift the  thumb on 'fair                                                                    
     and free' elections.  Those who support HB  4 and other                                                                    
     similar  legislation  designed   to  curtail  Democracy                                                                    
     would  do  better  to earn  their  keep  by  presenting                                                                    
     policies created  to benefit  the People of  Alaska and                                                                    
     not   by  building   an   insulating  fortress   around                                                                    
     themselves.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     HB 4  is a bad  bill. It  is an undemocratic  bill. How                                                                    
     dare  the  authors  of  this  inflammatory  legislation                                                                    
     elevate themselves above the Will of the People!                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:39:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL WISE, Representing  Self, testified in support of HB  4.  He                                                               
highlighted the  public's distrust  in the electoral  process and                                                               
urged  support for  HB 4  to renew  integrity in  the system  and                                                               
remove "opaqueness."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:41:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MUKHYA KHALSA,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.  She stated her support for  RCV, adding that it was the first                                                               
time she  felt her vote  truly counted.   She explained  that RCV                                                               
allowed her to vote for the candidate she wanted to win.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:43:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HARI   DEV  SINGH   KHALSA,  Representing   Self,  testified   in                                                               
opposition   to  HB   4,  characterizing   the   bill  as   voter                                                               
suppression.   He pointed out  that a majority of  Alaskans voted                                                               
for RCV.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:44:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WELTON,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.  He pointed out that a  majority of Alaskans voted for RCV and                                                               
open  primaries in  the 2020  election; further,  he opined  that                                                               
Make American  Great Again (MAGA)  extremists were  attempting to                                                               
repeal it with the proposed  legislation, which he described as a                                                               
"bad" bill.   He believed  that RCV was working,  demonstrated by                                                               
the election of  moderates who could "reach across  the aisle" in                                                               
in  U.S.  Representative  Mary  Peltola  and  U.S.  Senator  Lisa                                                               
Murkowski.    Furthermore, he  opined  that  RCV made  the  state                                                               
legislature  a more  functional  body,  citing Senator  Giessel's                                                               
reelection.  He emphasized that  repealing RCV behind the "closed                                                               
doors" of the legislature was the wrong way to fix the problem.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:46:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EMILY KANE, Representing  Self, testified in opposition  to HB 4,                                                               
adding that she  found great value in RCV.   She pointed out that                                                               
Alaskans voted to engage in open  primaries and RCV in 2020.  She                                                               
said she found  it disingenuous to repeal those  laws, which were                                                               
created by a  popular vote to make campaigning more  civil and to                                                               
elect leaders  that were more  representative of  the population.                                                               
She pointed out that the  overwhelming majority of those in favor                                                               
of  RCV  included  the  independent  and  undeclared  voters,  in                                                               
addition to the younger demographic  who would be leading society                                                               
in the  years ahead.   She  referenced the  language on  page 12,                                                               
lines 12-31 of the bill,  indicating that open primaries would be                                                               
abolished  should HB  4  pass.   She  stated  that  voting for  a                                                               
political party,  as opposed to  voting for a  person, undermined                                                               
the responsibilities and the credibility  of the candidates while                                                               
forcing voters to choose an ideology.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:49:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES  ALDRIDGE,   Representing  Self,  testified   in  "adamant"                                                               
opposition to HB 4.  He  contended that the numbers shared by the                                                               
bill sponsor were  "fluff," claiming that 99.8  percent of voters                                                               
were correctly  filled out.   He emphasized that the  majority of                                                               
Alaskans voted  for RCV, and  for that  reason, it should  not be                                                               
abandoned.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:50:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THERESE LEWANDOWSKI,  Representing Self, testified  in opposition                                                               
to HB  4.  She  read the  following written remarks  [included in                                                               
the committee packet]:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I am against this bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Open Primaries  provide Alaskan citizens  of all  or no                                                                    
     political  affiliation to  vote their  choice based  on                                                                    
     the  candidate's   qualifications  and  not   on  their                                                                    
     political party.  It eliminates multiple  ballots which                                                                    
     is always confusing for the voter.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Ranked Choice Voting allows a  similar choice - to vote                                                                    
     for the candidate, the person.  It encourages voters to                                                                    
     ask questions  and research the candidate  and not rely                                                                    
     on a political party to  think for them. It then allows                                                                    
     a voter  to choose 4,  if they  wish, and rank  them in                                                                    
     order of preference!                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     How often I have wished  I could do that election after                                                                    
     election.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     This  gives the  voter much  more say  in electing  our                                                                    
     politicians. And  it makes candidates  prove up  on why                                                                    
     they  are  running and  what  they  can actually  offer                                                                    
     citizens of this state.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Lastly - the majority voted  this into statute in 2020.                                                                    
     Legislators repealing it through  a bill is like taking                                                                    
     their voting power away from them.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:52:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE NELSON, Chairman, Sealaska, testified  in opposition to HB 4,                                                               
explaining that RCV  was initiated to remedy  the partisan issues                                                               
across the country.   He opined that RCV was  working.  He stated                                                               
that Native  folks' [political] affiliation  fell all  across the                                                               
spectrum, expressing  his hope that "common  sense would prevail"                                                               
and that all voices would be heard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:54:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAT RACE,  Representing Self,  testified in  opposition to  HB 4.                                                               
He informed  the committee that  he was a volunteer  board member                                                               
for  Alaskans   for  better  Elections.     He   discussed  party                                                               
representation,  indicating  that  the because  the  majority  of                                                               
legislators were  members of either the  democratic or republican                                                               
party,  they  were  not  representative of  most  Alaskans.    He                                                               
believed it would  be wrong to repeal RCV so  soon after Alaskans                                                               
voted on  the issue  and argued  that there was  no need  to rush                                                               
this issue.   He encouraged the legislature to set  HB 4 aside in                                                               
exchange for real problems in the state.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:56:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SALLY GATES, Representing Self, testified  in opposition to HB 4.                                                               
She pointed  out that  the majority of  Alaskan voters  voted for                                                               
RCV  in 2020,  adding  that  now, less  than  three years  later,                                                               
members of  this legislature were  trying to cast aside  the will                                                               
of Alaskan  voters, which  she characterized  as anti-democratic.                                                               
She  noted  that   she,  along  with  many   Alaskans,  were  not                                                               
affiliated  with   one  particular  party.     She  said  closing                                                               
primaries  and eliminating  RCV drastically  reduced the  options                                                               
for  voters.   She encouraged  legislators  to vote  "no" on  the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:58:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICKEY BARKER, Representing  Self, testified in support  of HB 4.                                                               
He  recalled that  a slim  majority  of Alaskans  voted for  RCV,                                                               
adding that outside money pushed  propaganda and promoted lies in                                                               
regard to  RCV.   He discussed  the disenfranchisement  of voters                                                               
and numerous ballots that were thrown out.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:00:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DONNA GOLDSMITH,  Representing Self,  testified in  opposition to                                                               
HB 4.  She conveyed that  in 2020, over half of registered voters                                                               
voted for  Ballot Measure  2, which allowed  every vote  to count                                                               
regardless of  political affiliation.  She  urged the legislature                                                               
to  listen to  the will  of  the people  who wanted  to change  a                                                               
system  that  was  not  inclusive   of  a  variety  of  political                                                               
affiliations and  values.  She  indicated that the repeal  of RCV                                                               
would disempower Alaskans'  vote.  She encouraged a  "no" vote on                                                               
HB 4.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:02:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID KASSER,  Representing Self,  testified in opposition  to HB
4.   He  stated that  RCV  allowed moderate  ideologies to  shine                                                               
through  and required  voters to  understand the  complexities of                                                               
each candidate, which made for  better, more informed voters.  He                                                               
urged the committee to "kill" HB 4.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:03:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ODETTE EDGAR,  Representing Self,  testified in opposition  to HB
4.   She  summarized her  experience  with RCV,  noting that  the                                                               
ballot  box  machines  rejected  erroneous  ballots  and  allowed                                                               
voters to fix  it on the spot.   She emphasized her  trust in the                                                               
election system.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:06:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LAURA STATS, Representing Self, testified  in opposition to HB 4.                                                               
She urged the  committee to postpone or  reconsider taking action                                                               
on RCV so  soon after it was  voted in by the  citizenry to allow                                                               
more time  for people to learn  the process.  She  opined that it                                                               
was too soon  to "kibosh" the will  of the people.   She said she                                                               
voted for  RCV to  move away from  extremism, which  was "tearing                                                               
the fabric of the nation apart."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:08:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATTY ITCHOAK, Representing  Self, testified in support  of HB 4.                                                               
She  opined that  only one  candidate from  each political  party                                                               
should  be on  the  ballot.   RCV  essentially  dilutes the  vote                                                               
count,  she  said,  which  discouraged her  from  voting  in  the                                                               
future.   She  referenced the  low  voter turnout  in the  [2020]                                                               
election.  She reiterated her support for the repeal of RCV.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:09:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ZACHARY MACINTYRE, Representing Self,  testified in opposition to                                                               
HB 4.   He explained that he, like many  Alaskans, never fit into                                                               
one established  political box.   He stated that RCV  allowed him                                                               
to vote  outside those  boxes, adding that  it was  the strongest                                                               
defense against extremism.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:11:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK DESINGER,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.   He  explained  that  RCV produces  a  winner  with the  most                                                               
support  across the  entire electorate.    RCV reduces  exhausted                                                               
votes, he  said, adding that  even if his  first-choice candidate                                                               
may not  have won,  all of  his votes counted.   He  continued to                                                               
explain that RCV allowed him to  vote for, rather than against, a                                                               
candidate, and  allowed him  to vote  his preference  rather than                                                               
vote for  someone who  would be  the most  electable.   He stated                                                               
that  RCV  would lessen  the  cost  to  the  state, as  it  would                                                               
eliminate the need for run-off elections.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:13:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JEFFREY BARNHART,  Representing Self, testified in  support of HB
4.    He  opined  that  Ballot  Measure  2,  which  combined  the                                                               
establishment  of  an RCV  system  and  the elimination  of  dark                                                               
money, was  an attempt  to deliberately  fool or  mislead voters.                                                               
He  shared  his  belief  that  most voters  were  voting  on  the                                                               
initiative to  eliminate dark money  rather than RCV.   He stated                                                               
that many Alaskan voters were  disenfranchised by the RCV system,                                                               
which  he described  as confusing  and unfair.   He  encouraged a                                                               
return to the traditional voting system.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:15:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANET MORRISON, Representing Self, testified  in support of HB 4.                                                               
She shared that  in her experience as a poll  worker, people were                                                               
confused  by  RCV.   She  questioned  what happened  to  mistaken                                                               
question  ballots,  absentee   ballots,  and  absentee  in-person                                                               
ballots.  She shared a personal anecdote.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:17:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES HARPRING, Representing Self, testified  in support of HB 4.                                                               
He  asserted that  that RCV  initiative was  funded with  out-of-                                                               
state "black  money."  He  stated his  support for the  repeal of                                                               
RCV and a return to the traditional voting system.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:19:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 4:19 p.m. to 4:21 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:21:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CATHERINE  MCCARTHY, Representing  Self, testified  in opposition                                                               
to HB  4.   She said  she felt liberated  by RCV,  as she  was no                                                               
longer "forced" to deal with a  closed primary system.  She urged                                                               
the committee to oppose the proposed legislation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:23:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JUNE ROTHMAN,  Representing Self,  testified in opposition  to HB
4.  He  thanked the DOE staff for implementing  RCV and launching                                                               
a "tremendous" educational  campaign.  He said  he took exception                                                               
to  the   implication  that  Alaskans  were   less  capable  than                                                               
Australians  or Irish  who had  been using  RCV successfully  for                                                               
many decades.   He believed that  RCV was a tremendous  asset for                                                               
the state.   He asked  the legislature not  to abandon RCV  or to                                                               
discount the lessons that had yet to be learned.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:25:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COLLEEN FORD,  Representing Self,  testified in opposition  to HB
4.  She stated that RCV  and open primaries must be preserved, as                                                               
they  allow independence  from the  two major  political parties.                                                               
She opined  that Alaskans never  fit comfortably within  the two-                                                               
party system and  shared her belief that the repeal  of RCV would                                                               
bring the state back to "political colonization."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:26:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE MILLIGAN,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.   He expressed his  support for RCV  because it gave  him more                                                               
power as a  voter, at the expense of political  parties, which he                                                               
likened to  limited liability corporations.   He opined  that the                                                               
bill would return  power to the political parties.   He asked the                                                               
committee not to advance HB 4.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:29:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JANET JAHNSAN,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.   She characterized the proposed  legislation as disrespectful                                                               
to all  the voters  who voted  in favor  of RCV.   She  urged the                                                               
committee to listen to the  overwhelming support for RCV that was                                                               
voiced  today.     Further,  she   expressed  support   for  open                                                               
primaries,  which allowed  all  options to  be  considered.   She                                                               
encouraged the committee to oppose HB 4.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:30:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ERIC JORDAN, Representing Self, testified  in opposition to HB 4.                                                               
He stated  that the  partisan party  primaries often  favored the                                                               
most extreme  candidates, often leading  to a choice  between the                                                               
"lesser of two  evils."  He expressed strong support  for RCV and                                                               
opposition to HB 4.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:31:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LUIN MCCABE,  Representing Self,  testified in  support of  HB 4.                                                               
She pointed  out that  RCV was  one of  three subjects  on Ballot                                                               
Measure  2, which  was sold  on the  promise of  eliminating dark                                                               
money.   She reported  that millions  of dollars  in out-of-state                                                               
money flooded  into Alaska from  out of  state in support  of RCV                                                               
during  the 2020  campaign season.   She  questioned why  out-of-                                                               
state  interests wanted  influence  in Alaska  elections and  why                                                               
citizens  were deceived  with false  advertising.   She  asserted                                                               
that RCV  allowed for multiple  selections, which  diminished the                                                               
notion of  "one vote  per person."   Further, she  indicated that                                                               
the complexity of RCV eliminated  the possibility of hand counts.                                                               
She shared a personal anecdote.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:34:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KELLY FISHLER, Representing  Self, testified in support  of HB 4,                                                               
describing  RCV as  too complicated  and complex.   She  said she                                                               
wanted her  vote to count.   She opined that RCV  favored "middle                                                               
of  the road"  candidates  who  were not  as  well  liked as  the                                                               
election  results would  indicate.   Further, she  suggested that                                                               
the additional  information on the  RCV ballots resulted  in more                                                               
exhausted ballots.   She suggested that low voter  turnout was an                                                               
indication that RCV was not working.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:36:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GRIFFIN PLUSH,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.  He discussed voter turnout,  claiming that it was the highest                                                               
it had  been since 2014  for the  regular primary election.   For                                                               
the  regular general  election, voter  turnout was  comparable to                                                               
previous  midterm general  elections, he  asserted.   He believed                                                               
that Alaskans were  capable of learning and adjusting  to the new                                                               
system  and  needed time  to  do  so.   He  referenced  exhausted                                                               
ballots, explaining that some people  made the choice not to mark                                                               
all three categories.  He  cautioned against assuming that people                                                               
didn't know  what they were  doing if they allowed  their ballots                                                               
to be exhausted.   He addressed the  "spoiler effect," indicating                                                               
that  RCV  allowed  candidates to  run  with  less  institutional                                                               
support.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:39:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEBBIE GOZDOR, Representing  Self, testified in support  of HB 4.                                                               
She said  she found RCV  confusing and expressed  her frustration                                                               
with  the  system.    She  urged the  committee  to  support  the                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:41:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT HOCKEMA, Representing Self,  testified in opposition to HB
4.    He responded  to  the  claim  that exhausted  ballots  were                                                               
discarded   from  the   final  total,   which  he   described  as                                                               
misleading.  He  explained the RCV process  in detail, indicating                                                               
that  many individuals  intentionally chose  not to  vote second,                                                               
third, and  fourth option because  the first choice was  the only                                                               
candidate  that satisfied  their  (indisc.).   He explained  that                                                               
this process  is referred to  as "ballot exhaustion"  and likened                                                               
it  to a  runoff  election.   He  pointed  out  that like  runoff                                                               
elections,  RCV  involved multiple  rounds  of  voting that  some                                                               
choose not to participate in.   He reminded members that the 2022                                                               
midterm  had  the lowest  voter  turnout  since 2014  across  the                                                               
entire nation.  He urged the committee to oppose the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:44:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DONNA STEINFORT,  Representing Self,  testified in  opposition to                                                               
HB 4.  She noted her  frustration with the closed primary system,                                                               
as it did not allow her to  vote for the candidate of her choice.                                                               
As an  elected official,  she found  that voters  generally liked                                                               
RCV once  they understood the  system.  RCV forced  candidates to                                                               
speak to the issues, she  said, and reduced the "stranglehold" of                                                               
political parties on  the election process.   Further, she argued                                                               
that she  was given a greater  voice by ranking candidates.   She                                                               
urged a "no" vote on HB 4.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:45:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK SPRINGER,  Representing Self, testified in  opposition to HB
4.   He pointed out that  Alaskans deserved to be  represented by                                                               
the "best and  brightest," adding that RCV  magnified the ability                                                               
to  represented  the  necessary  leaders  to  progress  into  the                                                               
twenty-first century.   He argued  that running for office  was a                                                               
"pay  to play"  proposition, adding  that party  loyalty finished                                                               
ahead  of the  candidates' willingness  to serve  the state.   He                                                               
believed that  RCV alleviated this  by loosening the  "iron first                                                               
grip" parties sought to impose  on candidates and election office                                                               
holders and gave all Alaskans an opportunity and a voice.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:47:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE GRUNST, Representing Self, testified  in opposition to HB 4.                                                               
He stated that  RCV was the best method to  equalize the election                                                               
field and allow voters to have  their voices heard.  Further, RCV                                                               
took the power  away from the parties and  made candidates appeal                                                               
to a wider selection of Alaskans  not just the extremes on either                                                               
end of the political spectrum, he  added.  As an Alaskan, he said                                                               
he was tired  of voting against a candidate,  indicating that RCV                                                               
allowed him to choose a candidate  that best represented him.  He                                                               
discussed the  cost saving  aspect of RCV,  as it  eliminated the                                                               
need for expensive runoff elections.   He emphasized that RCV was                                                               
simple, easy to use, effective, and fiscally responsible.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:50:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIBBY DALTON,  Representing Self, testified  in support of  HB 4.                                                               
She  pointed out  that  the RCV  initiative  narrowly passed  and                                                               
asserted  that the  measure  was  financed by  dark  money in  an                                                               
effort to  reelect U.S.  Senator Lisa  Murkowski.   She discussed                                                               
Scott Kendall's role in the  initiative and claimed that Alaskans                                                               
were blatantly  deceived.  She urged  support for the bill  and a                                                               
return to the traditional system.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:53:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRONSON FRYE, President, Building  and Construction Trade Council                                                               
of Southcentral Alaska, testified in  opposition to HB 4, stating                                                               
that he  trusted Alaskans to know  what's best for Alaskans.   He                                                               
pointed out  that RCV had  been explicitly and  directly approved                                                               
by Alaskan voters  and characterized the bill  as a disrespectful                                                               
attempt by politicians  to overturn the will of the  people.   He                                                               
described the bill  sponsor's claim that HB 4  was "upholding the                                                               
will of the  voters" as disingenuous when Alaskans  voted for RCV                                                               
in  2020.    He  urged  legislators  to  "quit  lying"  to  their                                                               
constituents.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:55:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA TYNDALL,  Representing Self,  testified in support  of HB
4.    As  an  election official,  she  recounted  the  confusion,                                                               
frustration, and  anger she  witnessed at  the ballot  box during                                                               
the  most recent  election.   She discussed  the audit  of Ballot                                                               
Measure 2 and  claimed that Alaskans did not truly  vote in favor                                                               
of  the initiative,  which was  funded by  dark money,  she said.                                                               
She discussed low  voter turnout and urged the  committee to pass                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:58:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHAW closed public testimony on HB 4.  He announced that                                                                  
the bill would be held over.                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 4 - AK Chamber Dittman Poll Page.pdf HJUD 5/11/2023 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 5/12/2023 1:00:00 PM
HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - Fiscal Note - GOV - 2,500.0.pdf HJUD 5/12/2023 1:00:00 PM
HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - Sectional Analysis.pdf HJUD 5/12/2023 1:00:00 PM
HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - Sponsor Statement.pdf HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - v.A.PDF HJUD 5/12/2023 1:00:00 PM
HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - Maine Policy Institute Study on RCV.pdf HJUD 5/11/2023 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 5/12/2023 1:00:00 PM
HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4
HB 4 - Emailed Public Comment - As of 05-02 - Support.pdf HSTA 5/2/2023 3:00:00 PM
HB 4